What is considered cheating?

[skippycue]

Cheating is one of those sensitive topics that may never really be agreed upon, but every site has to have some set of guidelines to follow, and these are ours:

Considered Cheating

• Using save game data other than your own.
  • We realize that sometimes it's necessary to restore some data using your own save files and obviously this is ok.
  • We also understand that save game data sharing is allowed cross-platform between the PS3 and the PSVita. Although we are not fans of this, we can't consider it cheating since it's officially supported by SONY.
  • Downloading save game data from the internet or even from friends to use on your system is NOT OK!
• Modifying save game data with a hex editor or other tool.

• Using any hacking tools (which we won't name here since we don't wish to advertise them)!!!

Not Considered Cheating

• Shared accounts.
  • A group of people earning trophies using one PSN ID is not considered cheating on this site. There is really no good way to prove this and as long as the trophies are earned properly it's ok with us.
• In-game glitches.
  • There are many glitches in games that cause trophies to pop up when they shouldn't. Buzz Quiz TV is a great example of this. The problem with considering this to be cheating is that many/most of these glitches can happen completely by accident so it wouldn't be fair to flag someone for them. In-game glitches are the fault of the developers and that's where we leave it.
• Manipulating the system clock.
  • For those trophies that require you to play a game for n hours, people often will simply change the system clock to get the trophy faster. Although we'd prefer to see the trophies earned legitimately, this does not greatly affect the outcome of any trophies. The trophy is simply earned a bit sooner than it would be otherwise. For this reason, we don't consider this cheating.
• Invalid Time Syncs.
  • I'm sure many of you have seen invalid time sync listed for various earned trophies. It would be great if we could use this as an indicator for cheating, but we can't. We have many proven cases of legitimately earned trophies where the timestamps was 00:00:00 for no apparent reason. For this reason, we can not consider this a sign of cheating. Although many times it IS an indicator of cheating, it can also be a common SONY glitch.

NOTE: A few invalid timestamps is not considered cheating, but many invalid timestamps may be!

If you have shared save data for the few older games that don't prevent it, we have a bit of a forgiveness policy. You're forgiven for 2 games before we flag you. We know people experimented in the past with games like SOCOM and FUEL, and we don't want to alienate the entire community for this. However... if you are caught using ANY hacking software, you will be flagged immediately even for just one game!!!

As you can see, there is VERY little we flag for cheating. You really have to go out of your way to be flagged as a cheater on this site! Check back often as these rules will likely evolve over time. Happy fair gaming everyone!

[naosabesnao]

Re: What is considered cheating?

Hello

I have one question skippycue, I understand the rules etc and when I saw the new site being up most of people on top I realised were flagged as cheaters and were taken account then some re-joined, I will not question this but regarding these rules of what is considered cheating.

What his the difference and how can it be prooved that someoned used save data other than his own/modified saved game data with an hex editor, and did not used his own save data?

How can it be prooved?

Thanks

[skippycue]

Re: What is considered cheating?

Hello

I have one question skippycue, I understand the rules etc and when I saw the new site being up most of people on top I realised were flagged as cheaters and were taken account then some re-joined, I will not question this but regarding these rules of what is considered cheating.

What his the difference and how can it be prooved that someoned used save data other than his own/modified saved game data with an hex editor, and did not used his own save data?

How can it be prooved?

Thanks

There are a few ways you can prove someone used or hacked saved game data. The first way is if lots of the trophies pop up a few seconds apart. This means when they started the game, there was new saved game data and the game started awarding trophies. The other way is if trophies are earned out of a possible order (like chapter trophies). This can only be done with using saved game data or hex editing data.

[naosabesnao]

Re: What is considered cheating?

There are a few ways you can prove someone used or hacked saved game data. The first way is if lots of the trophies pop up a few seconds apart. This means when they started the game, there was new saved game data and the game started awarding trophies. The other way is if trophies are earned out of a possible order (like chapter trophies). This can only be done with using saved game data or hex editing data.

Ok thanks for the clarification

[jt75]

Re: What is considered cheating?

Hey Skip i got a question...and it'll probly sound dumb but i have no idea what it is....what is a saved game data download? I think i get the jist of it, but what, theres a way to download save game data from the net? Or even from your psn friends?(no im not asking how) Not that i want to or would, im just curious as to what it is. I understand hacking a game and all that, but never heard of this. Now I did see a friend once, although it was on xbox, start up his game & for some reason it popped a couple trophies that he earned (at least he said he did) the previous time he played and he thought it had somthing to do with him not being signed into his online or user name or something(this was a couple years back, memory might be a bit fuzzy on it)but it kinda sounds like what you described earlier. Just curious as to what this is....

[chompison]

Re: What is considered cheating?

People copy their saved games to USB and upload them to the internet from their computer.
Then other people download them, copy them to their own PS3s via USB, and load it from the game.

Doesn't work for most games though. I don't even know which games allow it.

[skippycue]

Re: What is considered cheating?

Most games have some sort of checks that will prevent this and some don't even let you copy your game save to USB. But the PS3 has been decrypted so it's become easy to modify save data to include your system serial and psnid. This unfortunately means you can hack save data for most games if you know what you're doing.

[Hakoom]

There are a few ways you can prove someone used or hacked saved game data. The first way is if lots of the trophies pop up a few seconds apart. This means when they started the game, there was new saved game data and the game started awarding trophies. The other way is if trophies are earned out of a possible order (like chapter trophies). This can only be done with using saved game data or hex editing data.

i disagree abit there
sometimes you have a power failure or a ps3 crash which could hender you getting some trophies and ruin the order for a few.
some games are also gltichy which wont pop trophies after the chapter.
i had this happen to me in few games. (create/cod clasic/bioshock/all 4 in 1 ratchet.. few more)
when i played "CREATE" and finished 3 chapters i synced.. going to chapter 4 and finishing it.. my ps3 froze and when i resarted i had 0% trophies.. logign back in the game i was at chapter 5 with no chapter 4 trophy.. and after having alot of cheat and hack accusations.. i had to delete my save and start all over so i dont get accused about this..
shit happens sometimes ps3 isnt perfect and with the amount of games some trophy hunters played.. 5~10 trophies have to look fishy you cant expect to have a perfect list with over 10k+
but anyways you have a point there and it wil be a hack 80% of the time..
but the best way to catch hackers is to see other games.. and looking at the timestamps..once you hack u wont stop and hack more

[skippycue]

best way to catch hackers is to see other games.. and looking at the timestamps..once you hack u wont stop and hack more

You're exactly right, cheaters never just hack one game. And as you know we give flagged users the ability to dispute the flagging, and we are very open to reasonable explanations. These rules aren't 100% accurate, but they do apply to most cheaters.

[Hakoom]

You're exactly right, cheaters never just hack one game. And as you know we give flagged users the ability to dispute the flagging, and we are very open to reasonable explanations. These rules aren't 100% accurate, but they do apply to most cheaters.

yup i agree with you
its not possible to catch a person 100% but these days its easy to just look at the history of games they have.

[Sturmgheist]

I used to hack for web based games and play them hacked, it made everything so much easier. I never have hacked PS or XBOX though. I stuck to the web based games (on armorgames) so that it wouldn't give me a high trophy count. I hate when people hack to try be better than the people who actually play the game and earn the trophies the proper way.

[liverpool12zzz]

I dont get it . Ive read the rules as to whats considered cheating , i saw a blatant obvious trophy cheat about 2 weeks ago . , reported him ... and nothing . Is there exceptions ? Or a amount your allowed cheat on before removal ?

[jt75]

There is a limit....i believe its 2 blatant cheats. Im sure skip will let ya know the results of his investigation, he's got a lot goin right now....his son is due to be born anyday now! So may i ask what the cheat was? No need to call out the user....just what he did...

[liverpool12zzz]

There is a limit....i believe its 2 blatant cheats. Im sure skip will let ya know the results of his investigation, he's got a lot goin right now....his son is due to be born anyday now! So may i ask what the cheat was? No need to call out the user....just what he did...

sorry , didnt realise he had a lot on . this guy is platnuming games in 5 minutes , loads of them , ill name him if you like

[jt75]

If hes getting multiple plats that fast, he will get flagged. I coulda swore skip said he was working on something for the "auto-detect" time stamps ( meaning the program detects those quick plats by checking time stamps) maybe its not finished yet. He also manualy goes over questionable users and their time stamps, and whatever else is a cheat indicator. Im sure the user in question will be flagged. Skip will probly private message you for more info. This site is the best (overall, lol) but also especialy for flagging cheaters! Skip doesnt mess around when it comes to that! The cheater will be flagged!

[tinman_1954]

Invalid time sync - I think there may be a "glitch" or maybe some user ignorance ( on my part ) going on here. Let me explain myself. For a long time I could not get internet in my area. When I first started gaming, trophies meant nothing to me. There existence was useless, just a bunch of eye candy. Felt the same way about establishing a user name or setting the system date/time clock on my first two or three consoles which I gave away and never cleared the saved game data on. It wasn't until I finally got internet service and came online that my eyes were opened to the "big picture" and how everything works. Boy do I feel stupid now! Unfortunately the games and trophies saved on me current systems, before setting the system clock, show up with invalid time sync on them. I tried to replay some of the games hoping it would correct the problem but it doesn't. Even tried re-initialization to clear these games. Didn't work either. Nobody can tell me how to fix it either. I DO NOT cheat and I don't believe in it and never want to be labeled as being a cheater. I take pride in my trophies and achievements (they make sense now) and would like to get credit for them even if it means replaying them. There is no pride in cheating, only shame and failure. I believe not setting the system clock is the problem with other people as well. Skip, do you know how to fix this problem?